#40 Esther Kiss on High Level PR Strategy and Networking

Biography:

Esther Kiss is the producer and host of the popular podcast Born To Influence: The Marketing Show where she interviews highly successful entrepreneurs and NY Times bestselling authors about their marketing and PR strategies.

She has interviewed guests such as Gary Vaynerchuk, Perry Marshall, Joe Pulizzi, Jay Baer and more.

When working with clients through her one-of-a-kind publicity agency, Esther helps experts (coaches / consultants / authors / speakers / marketers) get exposure for an extended period of time by placing them on the right online media outlets.

These include interviews on podcasts, online radio shows, webinars & other presentations for telesummits and private, paid mastermind groups.

To help her clients get more leads and sales for their product, service or book launch, she introduces them to A-players such as the guests of Born To Influence for cross-promotion and long term collaboration.

Esther Kiss is the producer and host of the popular podcast Born To Influence: The Marketing Show where she interviews highly successful entrepreneurs and NY Times bestselling authors about their marketing and PR strategies.

She has interviewed guests such as Gary Vaynerchuk, Perry Marshall, Joe Pulizzi, Jay Baer and more.

When working with clients through her one-of-a-kind publicity agency, Esther helps experts (coaches / consultants / authors / speakers / marketers) get exposure for an extended period of time by placing them on the right online media outlets.

These include interviews on podcasts, online radio shows, webinars & other presentations for telesummits and private, paid mastermind groups.

To help her clients get more leads and sales for their product, service or book launch, she introduces them to A-players such as the guests of Born To Influence for cross-promotion and long term collaboration.

Topics of Conversation:

[0:00:14:8] Introduction
[0:00:35.5] Esther’s Background
[0:04:45.6] Pricing Strategy
[0:07:20.2] Creating Traffic
[0:16:00.2] Book Recommendation
[0:18:01.5] PR Strategies
[0:20:52.3] Client Connections and Relationships
[0:24:36.9] Tool Recommendation
[0:26:34.7] Outlook of PR in the Future
[0:31:20.6] Conclusion

Reach Out To Esther Kiss:

Twitter: @EstherKiss

E-mail: Esther@borntoinfluence.com

Website: Born To Influence

Tweetables:

Transcription:

[0:00:14.8] Stephen: Hey guys. It’s Stephen Esketzis here from Marketing on the Move. And today, I’ve got Esther with me. How are you doing, Esther?

Esther: I’m doing well. Thank you so much for having me on, Stephen.

Stephen: It’s a pleasure having you on. And I’m looking forward to really get into the PR side of Internet marketing and marketing in general. So give us a little bit of an introduction of what you do and how you came to do what you do.

[0:00:35.3] Esther: Yeah, I actually have a podcast myself. Like you, it’s called “Born to Influence.” And what happened was I have a background in marketing for about 15 years now.

And a while back, I’ve been coaching business owners, entrepreneurs, and a lot of coaches actually and consultants about their marketing strategies. And I attracted a lot of beginners to the services.

And I really wanted to work with high-level people as well. So, and I thought, “Well, what would be a good way to really be able to connect with people who have a multimillion Dollar business and how can I contribute to that?” And what I really wanted to do is to put together JV deals for them.

So we had this brilliant idea with a friend of mine, Mette Muller. We would just launch a show and how fun that would be. And then I get to build the relationships with everybody.

And of course, the whole thing, how it came about was that I wanted to have more coaching clients initially. And so, I thought, “Okay.

Well, I’ll just get some media exposure and what is this podcasting?” So I connected with John Lee Dumas just like two years ago. And he had already Entrepreneur on Fire which was, at the time already, one of the top shows in iTunes.

But it wasn’t as big as it is today. And so, and then we became friends. And I did his show.

I did an interview there and so on, did a webinar from his community. And I’m like, “Hmm. I kind of like this.” So that’s how it came about.

And so, we launched this show in December 2013. And I wanted to have people like Gary Vaynerchuk and Perry Marshall, and Yanik Silver, people who are like really, really high-level. And so, what we did with my friend Mette, is we created a show that was literally every single day, Monday to Saturday.

Stephen: Wow. Fantastic.

Esther: And it was very, very intense. Very, very demanding. No more time for working with clients. Yeah, and every single time, when I would interview someone, like a Gary, of course, he had at that time a book coming out, “Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook.”

Stephen: Yeah.

Esther: So that was a way for me to be able to connect with these type of influencers who are really high level, to find a way how to serve them. And so one of the things is, of course, if somebody has a book coming out, then you can offer to do an interview with them, and you would have them over.

So every time after we would hit the record—stop the recording button after the interview ended, I would say, “Hey, I know that you have this book coming out, would you like to be on other shows as well, because I know a lot of podcasters.”

Stephen: Yeah.

Esther: And they would always yes. And so I would introduce them, make the connections. It’s really in my nature to connect people anyway, and to make those introductions for people.

And I really wanted to build the relationships thinking that down the line, I’ll be able to broker JV deals for them once we have that rapport long-term. And at some point, it dawned at me that business, actually a business-to-book people love to do shows.

Stephen: I love it.

Esther: That’s how it came about from straight marketing to shifting towards PR. And what I do today is a blend of both because I also help them with their content preparation.

So we have a very specific marketing message strategy that fits the format of interviews. And so, that way, they literally have a cheat sheet that they can look at when they’re being interviewed.

They are able to talk in terms of stories and emotions, not just the educational part, because that’s of course for experts like Ryan Levesque, one of our mutual friends and clients. He has somebody who obviously, they want to talk about the methodology.

And they want to bring actionable advice to the audience. But the way we connect those listeners with the person that you are listening to is through stories.

Stephen: Exactly. That’s awesome.

Esther: So I have been developing that content that is really specific to how to connect with their audience, and at the same time also to make sure that it formats the—it fits the format of a media interview. And then, we book them on shows, and then bring it back on full circle, look at their funnels, how can we use these interviews to actually drive people into the funnel, so then they make more sales.

And it’s not just for branding and credibility, but also to actually make a big difference on their sales.

Stephen: That’s awesome. That’s a really full view of, I guess, the whole PR and JV, and marketing, and all of that.

So, I guess, first question I’ve got is, how do you price something like this?

How do you charge a client if you’re just brokering deals? Because to me?

I’d probably, at the beginning, it sounds like it would be pretty hard to get a pricing structure that would work comfortably for people that you’re charging to do organize them onto podcasts or getting them more publicity.

So how did your pricing structure work?

[0:04:45.6] Esther: Sure. So I used to always think from the very beginning, you know, when I was doing coaching stuff, it’s value-based pricing because you don’t want to do hourly, and you don’t want to do something that’s priced especially when it’s an untested offer, like, you know, in the case of marketing coaching. In the situation that I have right now with my offer, we are—we have three very specific packages that have the same kind of framework and the same kind of deliverables, you know, the content strategy and then booking them on shows, and then the introductions and so on, matching them up with other influencers.

So basically, depending on their needs, there are three different levels. And then, if somebody has something completely different that they need help there, like for example, they have their own show and they want to have guests for that show, then we prepare something that is custom for them. But basically, it comes down to just being able to see what that person is looking to do, what they’re launch is.

And then, there is a general, you know, retainer that I do that is four to five figures depending on what they need exactly, and how many shows they have the energy and the time to do. And then, they get to shortcut the process because they don’t have to spend the time in developing the relationships which are wholesome.

You know, for a lot of people who are big names, it may sound like; “You know what, everybody will be happy to have them on.” But I actually had clients who told me that, “You know, I really wanted to be on this show and I tried five times and they wouldn’t have me on.” And I was able to get them on.

So being able to leverage somebody else’s relationships, it’s just the same like when you’re trying to put together a JV. And you know, if you called/e-mailed somebody and say that, “Hey, can you promote my product?” It just doesn’t work.

And if you have a friend-of-a-friend-type of introduction, that’s a whole different story.

Stephen: Yeah, it’s just—it’s so just getting a foot in the door. You sort of, it’s like a one-laid almost, it allows you just to get that little bit of help to push it through the door, and get that podcast interview going.

Esther: That’s exactly, right. Yeah.

Stephen: That’s awesome. So yeah, that’s really interesting because I think one of the biggest struggles, if people like in your position who are really good at matchmaking, getting people together and brokering them into that podcast interview, or it might be a newspaper or TV or whatever platform you’re in, I think that’s probably something I think they would struggle with the pricing, and how to make sure that, okay, if you’re brokering a big deal, so for example, do you charge differently if you’re getting someone on something like Entrepreneur on Fire, which probably has millions of downloads per episode versus someone’s podcast who might only have 5,000 or 10,000 downloads?

Do you know what I mean?

Esther: Yeah.

Stephen: So I guess there’s that difference in value as well there. And we’ve got to sort of customize that and tailor it to each client.

[0:07:20.2] Esther: You know what, I actually, it’s a really good question. And I love that you asked that because it gives me the opportunity to talk about a little bit, traffic as well.

Because most people, when they think about doing a publicity campaign, especially if it’s about a book launch or a product launch, maybe something coming up three months from now, they start building that buzz. And they are thinking like, no exception on, you know, I think it was literally 100% of every single prospect I ever talked to.

Their expectation is that if I’m going to go on their show, like for example, Entrepreneur on Fire that has over a million downloads, I’m going to hold this traffic and the leads are coming in, and the sales are coming in. And the reality is, is that most people, when they listen to podcasts, they’re doing something else.

In the meantime, they’re walking the dog or doing the dishes, or they’re at the gym, whatever. They’re not necessarily in the position to immediately opt into your funnel.

Stephen: Yeah.

Esther: So even though there is a difference certainly with the number of opportunities that you will see from a smaller show, than, for example, from Entrepreneur on Fire, that’s completely irrelevant, because whatever leads and sales you’re going to get from that one-time appearance, I consider that as completely a bonus. That is an add-on sale. So what you want to do is look at all of these interviews as assets that you can then use in the rest of your marketing.

So for example, if you’re doing webinars and that’s your sales process, there is a time in between when somebody signs on for a webinar, and then when the actual content delivery happens. And in the meantime, of course, you’re sending them some content to prepare them, some e-mails.

If you supplement that with the interviews that you’ve done, then the person who is following you on social media or they’re on your e-mail list, it makes such a huge difference for them because they don’t know you. And if they see that you’re being a hit here, and then on this show, and then now on this YouTube show, and all these different parts of, you know, borrowing somebody else’s credibility, because they see you as somebody who’s on demand all the time being interviewed as an expert, it warms up and it builds an incredible amount of rapport and relationship, so that by the time they come to hear your offer, they feel like they know you.

And it’s so much easier to make that buying decision for them. So what you want to do is really look at all your media appearances. Like for example, if you’re doing a YouTube show, you take the audio from it, you repurpose it into an audio piece, and then get a transcript, make it into a blog article, into a social media post.

And then, use it over and over, and over again. And obviously, it’s an 80-20 thing. So you want to go with your best ones that you plug into your funnel that’s already converting.

And in the best way, you can really see the difference verifiably how it boosts your sales. So for example, we were talking about Ryan Levesque a minute ago.

He is the author of the “Ask” book which is basically finding out what the market wants, and testing the offer before you build your product or service. For him, what we did is he gave away 50 copies of his book every single time he would do an interview. And it is a leading piece.

It’s a very, very good book. It’s actually now just a lead generation book, but it really gives away the entire methodology that allowed him to sell over $100 million worth of products and services using this method.

But, so people would get this book. But then, of course, they get familiar with his methodology, and then they get into his funnel, where he upsells to the mastermind that we have, that you and I are both part of.

And it’s, you know, its $97 a month. And we started with 540 members initially before the book launch. And now, it’s well over a thousand.

And Ryan specifically said that one of the biggest drivers for his book sales was podcast interviews, and the other one was Facebook ads. And so, when you put the two together, and you get to have that kind of following who listen to you over time from interview, to interview, to interview, they are a much more of a passionate buyer long-term than somebody who just saw an ad for a free book giveaway.

Stephen:  Yeah, I love that. And it sort of builds that. I mean, mixed with Facebook ads, things like retargeting and using case studies and videos. I mean, two of the biggest book launches I think this year were Russell Brunson’s and Ask with Ryan Levesque.

Esther: Yeah.

Stephen: And those two, I know, there’s a lot of overlap between the same customers who bought them both. And you just say that the value that gets given between both of them is just incredible.

Like you see that the value in the case studies done through podcasts and just through the entire buzz that’s created around it, it doesn’t look organized. But when you break it down behind the scenes, there’s just so much that goes into it based on media, the e-mails, and the case studies. And it’s just crazy, isn’t it?

Esther: Yeah, absolutely. And to answer your question about the pricing, so, because you were asking about the difference between, for example, Entrepreneur on Fire that gets over a million downloads versus a small show. It’s not relevant because you are actually using that piece, that interview in the rest of your marketing.

So whatever comes from that point of time, appearance doesn’t matter. So the way I book my clients on shows is you’re very strict because they’re very busy. They literally, like Ryan, for example, have back-to-back appointments and weeks out.

So I go to them on specific shows that are either a spot or right match with the right, perfect target audience. Or because I know the show host and I know that who they’re connected to.

So for example, there is my friend – I’m not actually going to name, because he’s going to get bombarded. But you know, he’s really good friends with Jay Abraham and Joe Polish.

And so that way, I can give a heads up to the person that I’m representing, that “Hey, by the way, when you go on the show, these are the connections that you’re sent to make.”  Or “this person or podcaster is a little bit nit-picky,” or they like to know them more, so that you’re always, always prepared.

And then that way, you get to put your best foot forward, because you know, most people show/publish their podcast episodes once a week, which for you as an expert, it means that you have to be one of the top 52 contenders in any given year. And when we are talking about the three months period before a launch, it’s that much more competitive.

And most of the time, they don’t even have the same back again. And again, it’s really your one chance. So you really want to go prepared.

Stephen: Yeah, when you put a lot of that, when you say that, “Yeah, they only do one a week, and then they’re up for two weeks in a year.” Well, then you’ve got to be one of those top 52 that are on their mind.

Esther: Yeah.

Stephen: And I’ve never thought of it like that. And I think that’s a really good point, that there’s a lot of competition out there.

And I think now, especially with podcasting, it’s becoming a lot more saturated than it used to be. So people, they’ve got so many different options, so many different people they can interview, so many different podcasts they can be on, so much different value that they can use, like spread and people to engage with.

So it’s getting competitive. And I think that it’s just all about the value that you’ve got to give. So that’s a great point. I love that.

Esther: Yeah, and—go ahead.

Stephen: No, no. You go finish what you’re saying.

Esther: Well, the thing is that if you have, let’s say, a book coming out, and you’re doing this publicity campaign, and you’re going in a podcast tour. Like recently, for example, I interviewed James Altucher, Author of “Ask Yourself.”

He’s a venture capitalist. And he literally said that he sold more books by being interviewed on podcasts than he would have through any traditional book tour.

And he has 18 books out. So you know, he knows what he is talking about. So really, when you combine it with the right marketing strategies, it’s extremely powerful. But the trick is to not be repetitive of yourself.

Because a lot of times, when, especially in the Internet marketing world, when somebody has a book coming out, they do all the rounds of podcast interviews, but their stories kind of sound the same because your topic, you have to have your signature speech. And so it becomes a little bit boring for somebody who is following you.

So that’s why we put so much emphasis when I work on clients, and specifically preparing them with different pieces of content, so that it ties into the emotions that they have, they are able to struck a chord with their audience. But then the examples and the stories are different.

So, you know, some percentage of the interviews is the same because they’re talking about the same methodology. But then, the actual, specifics often times are very different.

So it doesn’t get boring for somebody who wants to look you up, maybe they heard about you for the first time. Now, they look up all the interviews. It’s not the same thing over and over again.

Stephen: Yeah, and I’ve definitely done that before. I mean, I’ve definitely found people I thought, “Wow, this is awesome.

I can’t wait to hear more from them. Go into your podcast, look and download about six or seven different interviews they’ve done.”

Or download their podcast as well, and then you go and you hear, there’s so much overlap in what they’re saying. So I think it’s really good that you’ve planned out, and you can really map out for your clients what sort of stories to tell, how are they going to be presented, who the background on the person they’re going to speak with.

It’s all of this stuff that you don’t really think of. And you think kind of like, well, for me at the beginning, and I’m sure it was you as well, you said podcast deals, and it can be awesome.

I’d love to have my own podcast and just do it. And you go through it and you don’t have much of a plan, and you sort of just put something out there. And whatever goes out goes out.

Esther: Yes.

Stephen: And as you progress, it slowly gets more and more structured, more systemized. You start sharing. You get it transcribed. You grow and you get some more traffic.

And you stop building it. It’s just crazy how things progressed. So I think having that service that you can tailor to each person is fantastic. I love that.

[0:16:00.2] Esther: Yeah, I love it too. It’s really fun to work with them through that process.

And I want to give here a book recommendation for our listeners because not everybody always has the opportunity to work with somebody who can prepare them for this. So there is a book called “4,000 Questions: For Getting to Know Anyone and Everyone.”

And it’s by Barbara Kipfer and it’s so good. It’s literally just question after question, after question. And it’s broken down into different categories, so business, personal life, outlook, philosophy, spirituals, and family-

Stephen: It’s seems like a podcaster’s handbook. I love that. I think I have to keep that with me every meeting from now.

Esther: Oh my god, it’s so good.

Stephen: And then I don’t have to think. This is great.

Esther: You know what; it gives you so much inspiration because I even did that sometimes with friends. Like come over, and okay, let’s do the questions.

And so we just during interview, we open it at different times. And they would catch us that you have to answer honestly.

Stephen: That’s awesome.

Esther: So this really sparks the ideas of stories that happened in your life. So we are not talking about something that’s very theoretical and very, you know, intellectual, but really what happened to you personally.

And it could be from your business or from your personal life, but it sparks ideas for you when you are writing your copy, when you’re developing your content for your marketing, for personal conversations, for being able to connect with people better. I’m a major, major introvert.

And most people have no idea because, you know, over time, you develop a skill to hold a conversation even if you’re meeting somebody for the very first time. And these questions really, really help at that.

Stephen: Yeah. That’s awesome. I mean, I didn’t really know something like that existed. But yeah, I’m thinking that if someone’s done a lot of podcasting, like John, or someone else who’s going to hold a lot of upside out there, you can turn that into a great lead magnet.

That’s a great idea. So there you go, that’s a really good one over there. I think that with podcasting, you can take it in so many different directions, that it’s just like the world’s your essay.

You can really use it as much as you want. So yeah, I think that—is podcasting for your something that you focus on? I mean, obviously, it’s a big part of your business.

But are there any other avenues of PR that you recommend to your clients?

[0:18:01.5] Esther: Yes. So depending on what they are doing, what they are launching, it really depends what makes the most sense for them. So for example, for somebody who has expertise in online marketing, maybe they’re a copywriter or a funnel expert, or somebody who knows lead generation, podcasts are a great way to get started because they get to explain in front of the right target audience who is really interested, and they want to educate themselves.

They are basically a captive audience for half an hour to an hour. So you get to do the educational marketing that you would normally do through your blogging, through your videos, whatever else you are doing, webinars.

But in this way, it’s more of a positioning play as well, because you are being interviewed as an expert. And so, they see you in a very, very different light.

So that’s why I love podcasts. But other than that, my whole take on the media is that we really have to redefine it, because most people, when they hear media, they think TV, radio, newspapers, magazines, that sort of stuff.

And that is fantastic when you’re looking for credibility and branding, because once you get to be say, on a TV network or in a big magazine, you get to put that logo in your website that you’ve been featured there. And for somebody who comes there for the first time, it makes a big impression.

And it positions you a great expert. But to be honest, like for example, if somebody came and they hear your introduction that so and so is a regular contributor at Forbes, or they hear the line “This person has been featured in Forbes Magazine,” it makes no difference for them.

They just hear Forbes. So on last year, somebody who is already a regular writing for a magazine or who’s trying to do that, it just at one time, it’s perfect with the online media, however, you can do as much as you want and go in depth.

Because when you’re talking about having composed at Forbes or whatever, you have to dumb down your message. You have to be very; very brief because they are serving a mass market audience, so you don’t get to go into detail.

Whereas, when you’re doing, for example, a podcast interview, or a telesummit, or a presentation for a paid mastermind or a private Facebook group, those are all media, and you are being in front of the right target audience that actually wants to hear from you and want to learn from you. So I consider all that online media.

And the initial, the most obvious choice is of course, podcast, but then for my high-level clients, we also do the other type of media, the YouTube shows, the telesummits, and the presentations for paid masterminds. And if it makes sense for what they’re looking for, and I mean, also for page and for traditional media as well.

Stephen: So how does that work with—I’m going to go back to processing again. Because I find that probably one of the most interesting parts of what you do, and I know that the value, there’s so much, so many different assets you can give your clients, which is what I love, that you can go not just down to podcasting or out below, you said you can go more traditional as well.

So do you have these contacts and relationships built with the people at these different ends of the media and then you just connect them? Is that mainly how it works or is it sort of like a paper article, or how does it works on your end as well?

[0:20:52.3] Esther: Yeah. It’s a retainer. So depending on what they need, they may—what their needs are, they may choose from three different packages. And again, if it’s completely different, then obviously we’ll build something custom.

But we do a retainer because it’s not, you know, I, first of all, nobody wants to come advertise their business. If I were charging per article or per podcast interview, I would be shooting myself in the foot. It’s just a business model.

Stephen: I think it’s definitely a smart move.

Esther: And then the other thing is too, that yeah, you may think that while this show has maybe 50 downloads a day or something like that, but again, if the personality of the interviewer is stuff that they give you the platform, the stage, so to speak, for a whole hour to speak, you have such a fantastic piece of content that then you can take control of the traffic and use it over and over again. It doesn’t matter that it was a small show or if it’s a person who is super well-connected with A-players.

Stephen: It’s basically some of the content.

Esther: Yeah. So it’s only by the relationships. And you really can’t put a price on that. I mean, what would it be worth to you if I connected with a New York Times best-selling author who you never had the chance otherwise to read?

Stephen: Exactly.

Esther: Or with a venture capitalist, how their relationship forever, as long as you, you know, start with, get off in the right foot. Yeah, it could be millions. Literally millions down the line.

Stephen: So yeah, that’s cool. I love that. And I think that’s a really good selling point for you. And it’s also a very valuable point for the client as well. I mean, relationships is one thing, where I love the quote, what is it, “Your net worth is your network.”

Esther: Yeah.

Stephen: That’s really one of my favourite quotes that I’ve just seen so much value. And I was talking to you before we started recording that I was in the States recently, and I met quite a lot of Internet marketers and business owners in the States which I never had the opportunity to meet.

And meeting them face to face just puts a hold in your perspective on what it means to network with all these people. So I was there and I’ve met a couple of people from the ClickBank company, a couple of people from the event from ClickFunnels, a couple of people I met in Vegas that are living that I had the opportunity to speak to.

And all these people now, you just sort of, you think, “Wow, now all these doors open up as well.” So it’s exactly the same as online and just connecting people, isn’t it?

Esther: Absolutely. And one more thing too, that I actually went to a workshop a while back and it was something, a spiritual thing that ended up not being my cup of tea at all. But one thing that I took away from there, from the person who is leading this workshop is when you meet somebody for the very first time, whether it’s through Facebook or in person or at a Dinner party, it doesn’t matter.

Come with the energy as if you knew that person already. So for example, you know, the way you carry yourself, you’re not going to say, “Hey, nice to meet you.”

It doesn’t mean that you’ll be overt and big them a big hug or anything like that. But talk to them in a way that as if you really love that person and they’ve been in your life for a while.

So one night, for example, I have a few messages back and forth with someone in Facebook. And then we do an interview or for some other reason, we talk on the phone or in Skype.

I always tell them not “nice to meet you,” but like, “it’s so nice to connect with you finally just beyond Facebook,” because then that way they really feel your energy. It’s more dominant than theirs, and you’re the host, you’re the welcoming person.

And they get to pick up on that, and then you—it’s almost as if they have known you for a long time than they really have. And it just puts the energy level of that relationship in a much higher end, friendlier wavelength than what you would have had if you’re very formal, instead of say, “Hey, nice to meet you.”

Stephen: Yeah, I love that. Really, there are so many little things that you can pick up on introductions, and connecting with people, and building those relationships. Like I know there are a lot of tools out there as well, that will like remind you to connect with people so you don’t lose touch.

And I remember those are like really cool e-mails, like I don’t remember what it is now. But there was one that after a certain amount of time that’s past, that you should just e-mail people instead of say, “Hey, what’s going on? Let’s grab a coffee.”

Things like that which really helps. Do you have any tools that you can recommend to our audience that you use on an on-going basis?

[0:24:36.9] Esther: I use one thing that is called “Streak.” And it’s a CRM that integrates with Gmail or Google apps.

And basically, if you have a pipeline or some kind of a flow for the process that you’re doing over and over again with the same kind of people, or with the same, you know, type of sequence that you take them through, like for example, when I book a person for my show to be interviewed, that I have to send/get their bio and so, and so. There are all these different stages. And so, it will actually help you and remind you with the buckets.

So you can just look at it and you don’t have to look at your e-mail history, because it integrates with it immediately.

Stephen: That’s awesome. That’s really cool. I think that’s a really good one. I mean, we are out of time.

And I’m really slack with this sort of stuff. I’ve got to admit, it’s not my strong point. I also jump on Skype and I’ll organize to speak with someone or get someone for an interview like be on set, and they’ll say, “Alright, so what do I need from you?” And then, “What do you mean, “What do I need from you?” You’re interviewing me.”

And it just comes into this like funny conversation where, it’s kind of a mixture of unorganized, but I kind of like that because it also builds rapport with the person.

Esther: Sure.

Stephen: And I don’t know, it’s a bit funny. But definitely, you’re more organized than I am.

Esther: It’s a little more vulnerable, but that’s exactly what allows them to have the connection with you, because it’s not like, “Oh, I’m so perfect.”

Stephen: Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, sometimes, like 90%–I’ve got to say—90% of the cases, you want to have that structure there, so you don’t have to worry about it. But every now and again, it’s good to sort of go with the flow.

And that way, you can be on the fly, you can just have a chat and say,

“Look, what do you like, what are some photos that you want to be featured on?

What’s your number one goal for the podcast?

Are you promoting anything at the moment?

Where do you want to take this?”

I know there’s some other podcasters out there that also just have, alright, bang, bang, bang, here’s a form for that, your bio for that, please fill at that, and then just send that across. So I think once you get that really nice balance where you build that rapport with someone, and then you can also promote what they want as well. I think it struck a really good relationship.

Esther: Absolutely.

Stephen: That’s awesome. So we’re winding up pretty shortly, but so what’s your plan for the next six to 12 months? Where are you taking your business and where do you see PR going as well?

[0:26:34.7] Esther: With PR, it’s an interesting thing because I talk to other publicists every once in a while. We like to collaborate, especially if it’s a specific publication that you’re looking into the media world to place clients, and then sometimes I have my contacts that I collaborate with.

I don’t see that they put a whole lot of emphasis on the online side. Some of them do podcast interviews, but they kind of see it as an add-on.

And I don’t think that it’s necessarily because they don’t’ recognize it as media, but because their background isn’t publicity only, and not in marketing. So the nice thing for me, and that is real differentiation point, you know that I actually, nobody does what I do with that kind of, from media message development to booking the interviews, to actually helping them plug it into their funnels, so that we can verifiably show leads and sales, because that’s what, especially people in our world, in their direct response marketing, they are looking at click-through rates.

And they’re very, very specific about their return on investment. And many of them, when they think of PR and publicity, they’re thinking, “Well, it’s fluff.” It’s branding.

It’s not even something that is really valuable. And when you get to show it to them in a way that is really, really bringing more sales to the table, then like, “Oh, I want in.”

Stephen: Yeah. That’s really cool. I think that that’s a massive point of difference, that a lot of these guys and—I guess it’s kind of mainstream PR, you can call it. A lot of these bigger agencies don’t have that spin on, that Internet marketing background that you would have, that you know exactly   what creates the results.

Because a lot of people, I mean, it’s kind of a Catch-22. They look for results, but then they also don’t look at the things which really create the results. I don’t know.

I mean, I think someone like that would explain the world’s Gary Vaynerchuk, he’s sort of, a lot of what he talks about isn’t really conversion rate numbers and results like that, but he talks more about the bigger picture, and playing along there. But ironically, he’s also an agency owner as well, which means they, if you’ve got a client, the client wants to see those numbers and results.

So you’re going to have to—

Esther: Oh yeah. I mean, he’s a proponent of Facebook apps. He always talks about dark posts and you have to learn it.

Stephen: Exactly. I mean, like I think he talks about it on a bigger picture level as well. He doesn’t really go into the details.

That I know somebody, you and I, people that we’ve spoken to. I know some of the past people we’ve had on this podcast, I know Rick Mulready, Ben Simkin, a lot of these guys who really know their numbers and things like that.

It’s kind of different, I don’t know. I guess it depends for each person. And it changes, I mean, like when you’ve got people on there that are talking bigger pictures.

Some people are talking more specific and more strategies. You get a real mix of people.

Esther: Yeah, completely. And you know, it’s funny that you mentioned Ben Simkin. I mean, he is one of the world’s leading experts in Facebook ads and in lead generation in general. He sold over $900 million worth of products and services for himself and his clients.

And I’ll be working with him for over a year and a half. We actually met at a Jay Abraham event last year. And for him, we do book him occasionally on podcasts, but that’s not where his interest lies.

He wants to be connected with a very high-level, influential people. And so that’s what I do for him. I make connections.

And there is such so many ways that you can tap into somebody else’s network, and it just makes sense. But you have to have that kind of a proper rapport and relationship because it’s not like, “Okay, look at my Facebook friends, and let’s then see who you want to be connected.” It doesn’t work that way.

Stephen: Exactly. I know. It’s so funny. I mean, like people have different goals, and obviously, you realize that when you connect them with the appropriate people and you tailor your services to meet those goals.

But it’s just interesting, I mean, like it’s so hard being someone who has no authority in the market place, nothing at all, and then goes and wants to get into touch with high-level guys and interview them and get in that sort of circle. So I think it’s a great service that you’re providing and it’s a really good way of really upleveling yourself.

I mean, it’s kind of like, what I look at it is it’s like a bridge to a mastermind. If I got some sort of marketing podcast or from just starting out, then I want to quickly accelerate my way up to a mastermind and see more people, and get introduced to them.

I could use a service like yours and say, “Esther, I’m looking to get and grow my brand, grow from my book that’s coming out, or grow my company. Can you sort of book me into a few of these podcasts and get into the same circles that these people are in.”

Esther: Yes. And so that’s one way to go about it. But not everybody has the opportunity. And so the other thing that you can do then is start a podcast yourself, and start developing the relationships with these players that you want to be connected with by offering them value, by offering them an opportunity to share their message.

Stephen: Yeah.

Esther: And then, when you’re a host, that’s fantastic. That’s such a good positioning. It’s not even funny.

Stephen: Yeah, I mean, like it’s kind of when you think about lead magnets. So you’ve got a lead magnet and you’re tracking your consumers. Same thing goes with podcasting.

If your podcast is the lead magnet, you’re attracting some great people and authoritative figures to come and be interviewed as well. So it’s just sort of providing value to the people you want to surround yourself with.

I think that’s a great way to look at it.

Esther: Yes.

[0:31:20.6] Stephen: So it’s been great having you on this. It’s been a pleasure having you and sharing your PR tips and tricks, and your service and how you cast things. I think our listeners are going to go away with a whole lot of value.

Where can we reach you before you go?

Esther: You can head on over to BornToInfluence.com, that’s our website. And that’s where they show notes live also from all of our past guests.

Or you can find the show of course on iTunes as well, Born To Influence: The Marketing Show. If you want to connect with me for PR services, you can find me through the website as well, or e-mail at Esther@borntoinfluence.com .

And for, maybe we can mention here, for the audience, for people who don’t know quite how well they would be prepared for using publicity, whether through a publicist or by themselves, drumming up appearances. You really want to make sure that your business is at a certain level, and you, as an expert, are at a certain level.

So I do have a quiz on the website, it’s called an “assessment,” where literally you can just figure out very funny yes or no short questions, whether or not it’s something that would be beneficial for you at this stage. So if you just go to BornToInfluence.com, and then click on “Assessment,” it will actually guide you through it, and then give you really good advice on what you can do to take your business to the next level.

So that you really can benefit from publicity.

Stephen: Love that. Sounds good. Well, I’ll make sure those will be in the show notes, so you’ll be able to head over to StephenEsketzis.com/podcasts.

And you’ll be able to get all those links and head over, take the quiz. Let us know what the results are in the comments below. Leave us a review, tell us how you go.

And yeah, sounds awesome. I will look forward to speaking to you soon.

Esther: Thank you.