FEATURED DOWNLOAD: Read and download the full transcription of Episode 36 with Jeremy Reeves. This episode is a pretty in-depth discussion on how to utilize sales funnel for business growth and lead generation success.
(Click Here to Download Transcription)
Jeremy Reeves is a direct response copywriter specializing in building strategic, automated sales funnels. Through various of his products and services he was able to help many business owners increase profits and gain more time freedom for then while maintaining a consistent cash flow.
He has been invited in many marketing events as a speaker, and when he’s not speaking in events he holds many webinars. Jeremy have also written for many top blogs in the marketing industry such as Visual Website Optimizer, KISSMetrics, CrazyEgg, Social Triggers and countless more.
Topics of Conversation:
[01:44] Favorite Funnel
[05:05] Webinar Availability
[08:59] Strong Foundation
[11:36] Earnings Per Click
[16:22] Tweaking and Time Off
[20:13] Price Pointing
[25:19] Low End to High End
[29:46] On Charging Clients
[38:35] Handling Unforeseen Circumstances
[42:31] In Conclusion
Reach Out To Jeremy Reeves:
- Website: http://www.jeremyreeves.com
- Website: http://www.getdreamclients.com
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyreeves
[00:14] Stephen: Hey guys, Stephen Esketzis here from Marketing on the Move and I’ve got Sales Funnel Specialist Jeremy Reeves with me today.
How are you doing Jeremy?
Jeremy: I’m good. I want to apologize right upfront if I cough or clear my throat or anything. For some reason; my throat’s a little bit scratchy today, I have no clue.
Stephen: No that sounds okay and crystal clear. I think you’re doing pretty well.
Jeremy: Oh nice.
Stephen: One thing I’m going to mention is I’m a big fan of your podcasts like we are just having a chat and the voice, I think it’s the American accent it has to be, I mean it’s so much better to listen to than the Australian accent. It’s like, I don’t know, whether it’s soothing or it just makes you sound like more professional, it’s got to be something.
Jeremy: It’s good.
Stephen: So I don’t know if it’s the same for the guys in the US listening to us.
Jeremy: It’s funny because I’ve done testing with–
Stephen: Split-testing the accent, I love it.
Jeremy: Yup, I’ve done testing with American accents versus, um, it’s usually British and Australian and British usually win. But for some reason I don’t know why. But Australia usually beats American. So it’s funny. I think you guys like our accents and we like yours.
Stephen: Let’s see. I think I have to come over for another holiday. I’m always popular when I’m around so I’ll have to maybe find someone from London or something so we could start doing our VSLs.
[01:44] Stephen: Also let’s get into it. So I’ll read a couple of questions and it’s going to be pretty casual. I do a lot of sales funnels stuff it’s good to have someone else here that does a lot of sales funnels and works with high end sort of sales funnels as well, who knows what they’re doing. So first question is, with your sales funnels,
do you have a favorite funnel?
Like, I don’t know, it’s a pretty board sort of question. I mean it depends on industries and whatnot but do you have a go-to funnel that you really like, you just know you’re going to nail when you set up or when you see a client?
Jeremy: Yeah, it kind of depends on the situation because I’ve worked with clients everywhere from people selling high end coaching programs like I have to people selling $27 eBooks so obviously the funnels are very different. But, I mean, one of the things that I like to really do is have some kind of – it’s getting hard to do with Facebook now because of the irrelevancy course and all that kind of stuff anymore just having the right tool and webinar and that’s what I’m talking about.
You know webinars work really, really well because basically there’s a time, and you know this is one of the things that I always talked about. Is there’s kind of a time period.
When people first come to your website or whatever you have, typically a website, their as cold as they can be, right? And the job of the website and your emails is to slowly warm them up into wanting to do business with you, add trust and show your authority, proof and demonstrating your expertise and all that kind of stuff.
Sales cycles are so much different. When you’re selling a $27 eBook, somebody could come and within 30 seconds, buy something.
Whereas when you’re selling a big coaching program, for example, usually the sales cycle is longer. So I personally like to do webinars and that kind of longer trainings because it really reduces the sales cycle.
You can get somebody that has never heard from you, put them through an hour-long webinar, and sell them a $5,000 or $10,000 coaching program from that so it’s one of the reasons I like it. Especially when you’re spending thousands of dollars on traffic, you want to recoup your investment as fast as you can.
So it’s always nice to get it back within hours, rather than weeks or months. If I had a general statement, a typical funnel that I like to do is do a webinar and you have all the different sequences that go into it.
You know you have the pre-webinar sequences that get them to help attendance rates, and then they get on the webinar and then you have them for people who missed it, people who showed up but didn’t see the offer and then after that they go into a nurture sequence. You know you just kind of follow up with them and that kind of stuff.
That’s one of the things that I like to do. In fact I just closed a client this morning on one of those funnels which is kind of cool. So that would be my kind of short summary on that.
[05:05] Stephen: Yeah. And to think you know, I am in the industry, and webinar funnels are getting pretty, I guess, crowded. Do you think it’s something that’s still going to be available for other nations and industries that really haven’t been exposed to it as much yet?
Jeremy: You know what, I don’t think that it’s the method of delivering the content that’s getting crowded I think it’s that everybody says the same thing.
Stephen: The message.
Jeremy: Yeah, the message, the positioning, what’s unique about what you’re saying, so I think that they’ll be around a long time. Maybe there’s a new technology that comes out or something like that.
You know it used to be just direct mail sales letters and that looked like the big delivery of getting sales. And then it started doing teleseminars and it was all basically a webinar on a phone, you know people kind of don’t even know what that is anymore.
Stephen: We don’t see many of them around. I heard Russell Brunson was talking about it in one of his podcasts lately. He was saying, yeah he’s getting back into it.
Stephen: Because now you don’t hear about teleseminars very often, do you?
Jeremy: Yeah. And I think the reason is because with webinars you can either have you on camera, where that helps more like a powerpoint slide or you can do a powerpoint slide so there’s more of that visual element that helps a lot, you know what I mean? Because you can entice certain emotions with visual elements and if you’re on camera, you build a better relationship with them faster and all that kind of stuff. So I think that’s why it probably works a little bit better in teleseminars.
In the future, maybe some new technology will come out. But I think a lot of it has to do with showing up different and unique than everybody else.
Stephen: Yeah. So you’re really positioning yourself and your offer to the right audience?
[07:02] Stephen: Awesome. And on the topic of keeping up to date with new things, there’s been, like, a lot of hype about these smart funnels and all these new coin terms that people keep bringing up.
I don’t know if it’s just marketing ploy or you think things are changing?
The way I see it is I don’t think there’s been too much of a leap forward. I mean I think people just re-coin different terms to bring out new products and stuff.
With smart funnels, to me that sort of just tells me about segmenting. I don’t know how you sort of say it?
Jeremy: Yeah it’s basically segmenting. That’s something I’ve been doing for probably 5 years. But, yeah I mean, there’s different tools, my kind of overall philosophy on that is that doing all that stuff basically it’s, there’s good things and bad things.
On the pro side of it, doing all that stuff definitely helps when you do the different segmenting. For example, there’re tools now with videos that if they watch 20 minutes of it or whatever, if they go back to the page it’s like ‘hey, pick up where you left off.’
Jeremy: Doing all that kind of stuff, the various retargeting. That helps. It definitely helps, there’s absolutely no doubt about it.
You know I’ve seen some pretty big increases in doing all that kind of stuff, even things like behavioral emails. For example, if they hit a certain page on your site like your services page 2 or 3 times, you can put them in the sequences based on that and say ‘hey, you know, you’re on my page, blablabla, do you have any questions or you know what it is.’
The problem with it is that most people start doing all that really advanced stuff before they have the foundation in place. So even though they’re doing that, their message still sucks.
They have no differentiation, there’s nothing unique about them, their offer basically sucks, and it’s not irresistible so you have to work on that stuff first.
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[08:59] Stephen: Yeah.
Jeremy: If you’re under… I mean the revenue numbers are kind of hard to say. But if you’re under like $500,000 roughly, you know, give or take I wouldn’t really worry about doing all that kind of advanced stuff.
Get the foundation in place, have a unique voice, have a unique offer first and really spend a lot of time nailing that down and then move on to that more advanced stuff where you can increase conversions and all that kind of stuff.
Does that make sense?
Stephen: Oh yeah, totally. I mean I say that all the time because I’ve got a few clients as well working with and I think that, what is the term, I think ‘putting the cart before the horse’, they go and they try and implement all these super advanced ninja tactics but at the end of the day, it’s their sales page which is the issue, which is the first thing people see or it’s the offer or the target audience or the traffic. They’re giving the wrong people the wrong message and you really need to nail those fundamentals before you get into the retargeting on the look-alike audiences in Facebook or you’re doing your follow-up sequences with the personalization and the timer. Those things are almost nothing compared to the big differences.
Jeremy: Yeah, you might see 23% increases whatever depending on what you’re doing, but if you really nail down exactly who you’re talking to with a really unique offer that’s irresistible blablabla, you can go 500 times or 500% not 500 times.
Jeremy: So I would focus. It’s not that that stuff’s bad, but you have to be in the right time frame to do it like you should have all the other stuff in place first before you start worrying about all the crazy advanced stuff. Plus it’s really complicated to figure out and there’s so much more support that you have to do.
I go through it and I’m always changing stuff in my own funnels because I have all kinds of advanced stuff in my funnels and at a certain point, it gets to be a pain because you have things and then they’re no longer relevant.
Stephen: New technology comes out, the changes…
Stephen: And its costs… And it’s funny. It’s usually this sort of little things that cost the most to run or to maintain or to fix or to change.
Stephen: So it’s pretty funny.
Jeremy: Yeah, it really is. So there’re good things and bad things about all that kind of stuff.
[11:36] Stephen: And I guess that sort of ties into—I was talking about funnels with a few friends and they were sort of throwing around ideas and you see affiliates go out there and one of the big things they look out is the EPC, so Earnings Per Click.
How important is that in a funnel in your perspective and what sort is a good way to judge an EPC?
So far some say super low. How do you make that attractive?
Is that one of your key metrics that you look out when you deliver a funnel to a client?
Jeremy: Yeah. Basically I tend to look at basic ROI. And any EPC that comes into that especially when you’re talking about clients and that kind of stuff.
But yeah, it kind of depends on the situation like for example you have to look at over a time frame. You know, your EPC immediately is obviously going to be less than it is over time.
It’s kind of like your average sale value versus your customer lifetime value. It depends on how you’re looking at it and when I’m talking with clients about that and even looking at my own business, or whatever, I always look at it like if I’m running traffic, it’s like ‘okay,
what kind of ROI do I want to hit and in what time frame?’
So it’s like I want to hit a 200% ROI and is that within a day, is it within a week, is it within 3 months, you know what I mean?
In the beginning, you want to be super, super specific and targeted to start getting that ROI so you can build up cash flow. Once you start getting better cash flow, and you start one on scale, that’s when you can push that ROI or EPC back a little bit and you can do it so you can wait 2 or 3 months.
At first, people are like ‘why would you want to make less money?’ You know that’s how you scale because you can’t scale like you just hear people talking about 1000% ROIs or whatever, that’s in the beginning.
[13:46] Stephen: Exactly.
Jeremy: You can definitely do that in the beginning because you’re going to be getting limited traffic and sales but you’re still getting awesome ROI. But when you’re getting into the million, multi-million dollar range, you’re typically not going to get that.
Maybe at certain segments of what you’re doing, but not like overall, you’re just not going to get that because you have to go after a more broad audience.
Stephen: Yeah, out of it as well.
Jeremy: Yeah. You know there’re a lot of different things to think about with that. You know I get that it kind of depends like the smartphones.
It depends on where you’re at your business. In the beginning, be super laser focused. If you’re customer is an 18-year old that’s 10 pounds overweight, or whatever, then when you’re doing Facebook marketing, that’s exactly who you’re talking to.
And then as you want to scale because obviously that market is going to be limited as it is a very specific person. Then when you want to scale, you can go a little bit broader and be like 18-30, 10-30 lbs over or whatever it is.
You can get broader but you have to know in advance that as you get more traffic, more volume, your ROI is going to come down.
Stephen: It’s really funny how it works. I know the traffic and the things, you start out with just putting your offer out there, you find out who your avatar is, and then as people go through your funnel, you obviously want to get more people similar to that back through your funnel.
So you’re getting narrow but it also gets wider again as you scale. So it’s sort of a bit of a process.
Jeremy: Yeah, definitely. And of course it also depends on the type of business they have. If you don’t want to build it into a multi-million dollar thing, then you can kind of just get to a certain point and just let it ride.
Either build a new business or just enjoy the time off or start a charity. That’s one of the things that’s in my near future or whatever you want to do with your life.
Then just do that. It’s funny and really everything pretty much depends on you.
Stephen: Yeah, it’s all a personal challenge. I mean that’s the beauty of this business. You build a sales funnel around you, the sales funnel doesn’t build you, and it’s not back to front.
[16:22] Stephen: You build it to how it suits you and then you start tweaking it and changing it and growing it.
Jeremy: Yeah. A good thing with that is I actually have a client. She, I think by about 3 and a half or a fourth roughly somewhere in that range and they’re doing awesome, they’re very profitable, they’ve been in business, making most of their sales through referrals and stuff like that.
So, you know, the business is really humming along and her personal income, I think, is over $500 grand a year and she is doing very well. But she’s working like crazy. Before I started working with her, she didn’t take a vacation for 8 years.
Jeremy: And so I started to work with her and I’m like ‘listen, what do you want in your business?’
and I went through the whole thing like ‘you know, what do you really want?’
and it’s like you obviously have more than enough money, because she’s not extravagant, she doesn’t have Lamborghini’s, that kind of stuff. So money is the big motivator for her.
So I’m like ‘what do you really want in your life?
Where you’re at now?
Your kids are growing’ and I think one of her kids just recently graduated. So they’re older, she’s in her early 50’s, maybe something like that. So we talked and, blablabla, went through the whole thing and she came back to me like a week or so later and she’s like ‘you know what’ her daughter has Lyme’s disease and it’s pretty bad too where she has to be hospitalized when the flare’s up, stuff like that.
So I guess she spent a week in the hospital with her daughter and the business kind of just went crazy while she was gone and she came back and she’s like ‘you know what, that’s it. I just can’t do it anymore.’
She finally hit her breaking point and so she’s like ‘I’m going to spend the next few weeks getting things in place and I’m changing this right now’ and she said ‘I’m actually going to reduce the business on purpose so that I can have more free time.’ So a couple of weeks went by and she told me that her and her husband booked a 2-week vacation completely unplugged.
I was like, ‘oh it’s awesome.’ They made me so happy; I got the biggest smile on my face when I saw that.
She was stressed out, she was doing well everywhere else, so I’m actually still in the process of building out her funnels, a really, really big funnel to get everything automated for her and everything’s coming along. It shows a good point to prove that it really depends on you and what you want and don’t only go for the money. I’m not a hugely money-motivated kind of guy, obviously, and I am to a point. But I know kind of what my upper limit is. You know what I mean?
Jeremy: And don’t really need more than that and I would rather spend… because I have to kids, a wife, so I spend tons of time with them. I’m done working by 3:00 every day. I don’t work nights or weekends.
Stephen: Yeah I remember listening to the podcast and you were talking about, I think, you were trying to take Fridays off or you have half-days on Friday or something like that?
Jeremy: Oh, yeah. That’s actually a new thing. I finally got into golf. My dad tried to get me into golf and he just passed away last year and last year I was like, ‘you know what, I’m going to go golfing with him because he was like obsessed with golf.’
Jeremy: And I actually got into golf, finally. So yes now every Friday afternoon we take off and we go golfing.
Stephen: It’s awesome, I love that. That’s the beauty of really choosing the business model like what you were saying. So that’s epic.
Jeremy: Yeah, definitely.
[20:13] Stephen: That’s really cool. So I guess, with all these funnels, and things in place, how does someone go in and choose the price points in their funnels? Like, where do you go to membership side or whatever it might be,
how do you get comfortable with the price point that you deliver and offer to?
I mean these days you can get an eBook and charge $97 or $7, you can go through a membership side and charge $97 or $9,999. In this so much variance and these different funnels, I don’t think it’s content-based but some of them are based as masterminds a lot of them are accountability-based or networking-based.
How do you go through and really choose a price point that sits well with you so you can build out a funnel?
Jeremy: Yeah that’s a really good question. There’s kind of a couple, it’s like a multi-faceted type of thing. So number 1, it’s all based on value. That’s like kind of the over-arching thing here.
It’s always based on value. So if you’re doing something, this is actually why I originally started to increase my prices in my own business, building funnels, because I would go and I’d build a funnel for someone and make them $2 million and they were charged with whatever, I don’t remember what I used to charge, a couple thousand dollars for a sales letter and I’m like ‘Jesus, that’s not even–.’ So the number 1 thing is it’s based on value.
That’s why it’s important when you’re building your programs to focus on ‘how do I structure this?
What’s the framework that I can create to get the best results for the client?’
Number 1, because you’re getting them the best results, obviously. Number 2, when you’re getting more people better results, you can then charge more for those results. So I just started a coaching business showing, coaches and consultants and basically service providers, how to do all these stuff in their business and you know, work with dream clients and charge way more and all that kind of stuff and there are 2 levels of it.
The lower level is more group-based and then the higher level is very implementation-focused, it’s a personal access to me, there’s a very, very specific guarantee which is to double your income and your time off and that’s basically guaranteed.
So obviously with that, versus if you look at that guarantee, you’re going to double your income and your time off versus you can ask for money back whenever you want. The difference is enormous.
If someone’s making, whatever, $100,000 and you say I’m going to double your income while you work half the time, you’re guaranteeing them $100,000. So you can charge way more than just saying you can get your money back whenever because there’s no specific result tied to what you’re doing. So the number 1 thing is value.
Another thing is, this really goes for stuff if you’re selling a high-level kind of thing, a really high ticket coaching program or whatever it is, you can do things at a lower level that are just at the same value because you’re going for volume to then sell people into the higher things.
So for example, one of the typical models that’s pretty popular for selling high ticket stuff is selling lower level stuff just say $99 or $197 or whatever, to really demonstrate your expertise and get people fast results.
And then in that thing, it could be a live event or a webinar that you’re selling like a webinar workshop type of thing, in that you then sell the higher ticket things so even though you could sell that for $1,000 or $2,000 or whatever.
Just say in a 2-day event, a 2-day workshop in person, you could sell that for $1,000 or $2,000 and it’s very much worth it depending on what results you’re getting people. It all comes down to strategy.
If your strategy is that you want enough volume in the room to be able to sell 30% of the people in a $20,000 to $30,000 coaching program then you can reduce the price to make it just a completely irresistible offer and then sell them the higher ticket thing.
You know another way of looking at it is number 1 look at value and then number 2 look at your overall strategy and how that fits in. So hopefully that covers it.
[25:19] Stephen: Yeah definitely. I mean I went to an event, just to give you an example, exactly what you’re saying is, I went to an event earlier this year or late last year with a business coach and they’re all pretty much talking about his funnel essentially went from content on the website, delivering message and value straight into a 2-day event in Sydney, Australia. I think he charged $197, so pretty low end.
Something he probably could’ve charged a $1,000 like you said over those 2 days. And then from there after those 2 days he sold into a mastermind, I think it was $16,000 straight up or $18,000 on a payment plan, something like that.
I think he sold at least $200,000 – $300,000 worth to the room that he had over there over those 2 days so it just shows you the massive, massive power behind a funnel like that. So simple but because he’s priced accordingly and he delivered that so much value over those 2 days it just blows everyone away, everyone just gets stunned.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely.
Stephen: $300,000 day just over the stage? That’s crazy.
Jeremy: Yeah. You walk off with a big smile on your face.
Stephen: Exactly. And in that day, how many hours does that pay for, it’s pretty much done.
Jeremy: I actually know a guy. I don’t know him personally but I’ve heard of a guy who basically did that and he would sell, I think it was cheap, like $97 or something for an event and he did 3 events a year and he sold on average, it was like between $300 – $400 grand into a really high level it was like a 3,000 hour program and he did 3 of them in a year. That was his business model.
Stephen: You know what, it might have been the same person. It’s crazy.
Jeremy: He was like ‘you know what, I want to make a million bucks a year and that’s how I’m going to do it.’ And he did it.
Stephen: That’s it. I mean when you go out there and you’ve got that mentality, you’ve got that confidence and the drive just thinking ‘you know what, I want the rest of my days to be holidays, I want to live life on these terms’, that’s how you do it.
Stephen: And it’s awesome, I mean each to their own. Like what we were saying.
Jeremy: Yeah. Another really, really quick addition to what I was saying is whatever you think you should charge, just say you were some kind of service provider, whatever, or you sell a product, whatever it is.
Just say that right now you charge, I don’t know, $1,000. You can probably increase4 that at least 20% – 50% with no decrease in conversions at all if you, you go back to the beginning, the foundation.
You know? If you’re talking to the right person, really, really digging into the pain points that they’re facing, and then showing them—first you dig into the pain points, and you know, ‘this is who I help’, and then you have a unique offer.
But if you really, really clearly articulate that, you can probably, if you do it right, you can probably increase your price by, I would say, 20% – 50% with no decrease in conversions just with that copy of a page.
Stephen: And that’s if you’ve got those foundations then you’re good to go.
Jeremy: Yeah. I mean it really comes down to all that. So many people have businesses that they don’t articulate exactly who they help and how they help them or why they’re different and all that kind of stuff. I actually have to go back to my own website.
Stephen: It’s always the case, isn’t it? It’s always like your own website is never the best indication of your work.
Jeremy: Yeah. Oh my God, it’s terrible. Even with the new coaching program, I’m going through that whole process and I’m forcing myself because like with clients, I have worksheets and all that kind of stuff that I go through before I start writing the copy and I never, ever do that with my own stuff.
Jeremy: So I’m forcing myself to go through it because it’s a really competitive market that I’m in so I need to do that. But I’m forcing myself to go back for it and do that like I’m kind of my own client for this.
Jeremy: Because you know the results are phenomenally better when you do all that kind of stuff and have systems in place to make sure that you do that before you read the copy.
FEATURED DOWNLOAD: Read and download the full transcription of Episode 36 with Jeremy Reeves. This episode is a pretty in-depth discussion on how to utilize sales funnel for business growth and lead generation success.
(Click Here to Download Transcription)
[29:46] Stephen: Yeah. So we’ll wrap it up pretty soon. I’ve got one more question for you so let’s flip it around on the building funnel side. So we’ve talked a bit about the actual funnel itself, the client’s perspective.
From your perspective, how do you go around quoting someone on building a funnel?
So this is probably more of an insight to service providers or other people probably in the same Internet marketing industry. Like when you go and see a funnel, do you say ‘well these are my prices and what I charge per hour’ or do you have ‘this is what I do’.
Like I know you’ve got a funnel there and I’m sure it looks fine with what they are. How do you go in and say, alright, if this client is going to be making their 5 million dollar a year, how do you go in there and where would you start charging?
Like do you have a base rate and you charge based on the client’s outcomes? Do you do a revenue share model? How do you attack that?
Jeremy: Yeah, so basically any on all of the above. So it kind of depends on the client. Right now I have basically 2 different businesses that I run.
The one is building the funnels, actually writing all the copy. I have a designer who designs the pages, I have a guy, you know, who does all the implementation like sets up the emails, all that kind of stuff.
And then there’s the other side coaching service providers how to build a business like I talked about before.
Jeremy: So on the implementation side; it’s different than the coaching side. The coaching side is just you know, I have a like a package and it’s just you get this xxx dollars.
So the implementation side, I’ll focus a little bit more on that just because it’s a little bit more complex. For that one basically I have all the different ways that I attract Leads and then they go through my funnels and all that kind of stuff.
By the time I talk to them, they’re already pre-sold. I’m doing business with them, a lot of people. I’ve actually had people that have literally begged to work with me. I’m not exaggerating whatsoever with that.
Stephen: I remember you talking and again off the podcast or maybe been actually off the website that somebody wanted to sell their house, their car or something crazy just to work with you.
Jeremy: Yeah. You’re in a good spot when people are doing that kind of stuff. So there’s that and then a lot of people come on the phone and they’ll literally say, ‘Jeremy listen, I know that I’m hiring you for this.
I’m not even looking at anybody else; I know that you’re going to do this for me. Just tell me how much it is and let’s just start.’ You know I actually have a pretty decent amount of people say that. You know not those exact words obviously.
Stephen: No, of course not.
Jeremy: Yeah, like that kind of thing. So I talk to them on the phone and depending on the client, I usually get a sense of their budget for the projects, you know. Depending on what they can allocate towards it, if it’s just a small little thing, actually like the guy I’m doing a quick, mini webinar funnel for him.
So that one’s easy, it’s just, okay; you’re getting the pre-webinar emails, the post-webinar emails, in that sequence. That’s it. He’s taking care of the rest because his budget is kind of small and he just wants to get like stage 1 going.
Jeremy: And then after that, once it’s rolling, once he’s positive of ROI, we’ll go back and redo the whole thing. In that case, I just base on like I have a certain price for emails I have a range for sales letters because it depends on the complexity of it, the length of it, and all that kind of stuff.
Stephen: You run the copy yourself as well, don’t you?
Jeremy: Yeah I actually kind of do a mix so I have an employee now that does a lot of the leg work, the research for me, and then the skeleton together and then I go in and polish it all up and make sure all the pain points are in there, make sure the selling points, the psychology, and all that kind of stuff.
Jeremy: So it’s a little bit of a mix now. I’m getting out of doing 100% of that myself and I haven’t been to that for a while, actually.
And then for certain clients, if they’re looking for a bigger funnel and basically doing it the right way from the start, then I sell them on doing the funnel day. And a funnel day is actually my way of getting my clients to pay me multi-four figures to meet with them for a day and they’re actually paying me to pitch them, the whole day, which is kind of an awesome concept.
Stephen: Well it’s a great qualifier.
Jeremy: Yeah, it really is. And you know my closed rate with funnel day is—now I’ve done a couple where I knew upfront that they were going to do the implementation—so excluding them, the ones that were like considering hiring me, basically —
Stephen: The plausible ones, yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, I think it’s a 100%.
Stephen: That’s awesome.
Jeremy: Yeah. I don’t think I’ve lost one yet, that I can remember. If I have, there’s only 1 person.
Stephen: How long have you been doing them for?
Jeremy: About a year and a half? Or something like that?
Stephen: Nice traffic right there.
Jeremy: Yeah. And because people are paying you several thousand dollars, plus if I’m going to them they pay for my travelling fees, if they’re farther away, like I did 2 actually, at Marino and I did one in California. So if I’m going out West, because I’m in Pennsylvania, then they actually pay me for extra flying time because it’s like a 12-hour trip.
So they’re paying a lot of money just to get me there and it’s worth it for them you know, it’s on the value.
Stephen: It’s all ROI.
Jeremy: Yeah, it’s worth it to them because typically these are multi-million dollar companies that are having me do this. And then throughout the day, where it’s basically all a huge strategy session where I’m mapping out the whole funnel and it’s not just like ‘okay, you’re going to have 10 emails here, you’re going to have this page here’, it’s, you know, we’re really digging into the strategy, we’re going back to that foundation, we’re really nailing down pain points and all that kind of stuff so that I can do my job properly when I read the copy.
So like all of that. It’s really very, very strategically focused. And then I come home and I map out, typically on the flight home, or if they come here the next morning or whatever. Then I map out exactly what we went over, what that entails in terms of my action list, if you will.
So I’m going to write 10 emails a year, 15 emails a year, 3 sales letters, you know, whatever it is. Then I kind of break it all down and say ‘okay, you know the whole project is going to be x dollars.’
And then for some clients, these don’t usually happen, but I would say out of funnel days, these are probably 25% or so, I actually do a retainer with them and there’s like a whole thing to selling retainers. But that’s more of like, if it’s not just like ‘okay, here’s the funnel, this is where we can build.’
If it’s more of like ‘okay, you know there’s going to be that plus like extra stuff, you know new sales letters in the future, new emails, and sometimes like daily emails or whatever’ then I do a retainer with them. And typically it’s $10,000 a month or something like that.
Jeremy: So then there are a handful of those kinds of things.
Stephen: So you’ve got a few different options in there and I guess it really depends on the client.
Stephen: That’s really cool.
Jeremy: Yeah it depends on the client. And all of that is a good thing and a bad thing.
It’s a good thing because everything’s customized to the clients. It’s a bad thing, and this is something I’m working on now, because on my own foundation I’m still a little bit too broad so I’m in the process now of really narrowing down who I help exactly.
Stephen: Ideal client?
Jeremy: Yeah, like I have all of the pain points and all that kind of stuff In place but I’m still a little bit too broad in exactly who I help you know because I’ve done funnels for e-commerce sites, I’ve done funnels for all different kinds of service providers, I’ve done funnels for information products and all that kind of stuff. So it’s hard to get systems and templates in place to get the work done faster. So that’s kind of my bottle neck now that I’m opening up a little bit.
Jeremy: So I’m not a bottleneck anymore.
Stephen: Giving that laser target.
Jeremy: Yeah, yeah.
[38:35] Stephen: Okay, I’m going to try and squeeze one more question in here and it’s only because you’ve just been talking about that as well. But you’ve sort of been, are you sharpening your sword and this question is what happens when a funnel goes wrong? Have you had any experience where you haven’t hit the ROI of the client? And how did you come out from that?
Jeremy: Yeah, over the years, that sort of happens once In a while, a lot of times. I actually just recently had one where we built a funnel and it was a good funnel, he absolutely loved the copy blablabla but it just didn’t hit it, you know and it kind of sucks because it was a new thing.
It wasn’t something that was there to improve. So you know, I mean 90% of businesses fail. So it was a new thing and kind of going after a new market and using Facebook, which takes a while to get traction.
So basically we launched it and it didn’t do good and he’s like ‘oh this didn’t work, I want my money back right now.’ and I did because it’s just worth it not even dealing with all the issues that would happen if you don’t but that rarely, rarely happens.
Usually it’s a case of ‘okay, we got some traction but it’s not quite what I was expecting’ and then I’ll go back and look through and say ‘okay, what can we tweak?’
Because when you’re building, especially when you’re building funnels that have 15 pages in there, there’s like 150 emails, sometimes you overlook things and all that. So I’ll go back and re-tweak things and we’ll do surveys to find out what’s off, why people aren’t building, those kinds of things and just go back and re-tweak and typically boost it back up again. Usually I try to just tweak things and usually that’s what happens. You just tweak it and then you get it.
Again, you know, it’s business. The guy that wanted the refund, I’ve learned afterwards, it was a bad client selection on my end. He wasn’t really an astute business owner.
Stephen: You know what?
You get those people that sort of slip through the cracks and that just shows you that obviously your funnel needs a little bit more optimizing. So I mean it just happens.
It’s good that you’ve picked that up and you realized more importantly that now ‘okay, let’s sit back, how did that guy get into my funnel?’
And how can I block that leak so it never happens again and we keep hitting the good goals.
Jeremy: Yeah and you know sometimes it’s never ever going to be 100%. It’s impossible to get to a point where there’ll never be a bad client again. You know, I’m at the point where it’s like, 90% plus are awesome clients and all that kind of stuff but you know every once in a while people put on a different face, you know what I mean? And they’re good salesmen on selling themselves basically and you know make it tricky a little bit.
Stephen: It happens.
Jeremy: Yeah. But then sometimes it’s a personality clash, or whatever it is. You know that happens.
Stephen: Oh yeah, guaranteed. I’ve had definitely some experiences. You just go in there and you think ‘you know what even if we’re the perfect fit, there’s no way we can sort of work together and see this out the right way.
It’s just not going to happen, there’ll be just fireworks.’
Jeremy: Yeah and you usually figure that out pretty quickly. I’ve learned to rely very, very heavily on my gut. I’ve always been kind of sensitive to energy and that kind of thing. So looking back at all bad clients I’ve had over the years, every single time I have a gut feeling that something was going to go wrong, and eventually something went wrong.
Maybe it’s good for the first few weeks then all of a sudden something happens and you know, whatever. But listen to your gut basically.
Stephen: Yeah, guaranteed.
[42:31] Stephen: So Jeremy it’s been awesome having you on. It’s been a pleasure having you on. And I think you shared some really massive, golden nuggets for people to take away.
Jeremy: Yeah, definitely. That was my pleasure.
Stephen: But yeah, we’ll have to have you on again soon and hopefully share some more of your sales funnel expertise?
Stephen: But where can people reach you to find out more?
Jeremy: Yeah. So there’s like I’ve said before. There’re basically two sides of a business? Number 1 is jeremyreeves.com, just go there if you want things implemented.
You know, like if you would like to have me do a funnel for you, go to jeremyreeves.com, there’re all kinds of stuff there. There’s contact me forms, just to shoot an email, whatever.
There’s more explanation of the various services that I have, there’s products, there’s you know all kinds of free stuff. So kind of just go there and there’s all kinds of good stuff there.
And then the other one is getdreamclients.com and that’s the one that focuses 100% on service providers and there’s a big emphasis on coaching with that one so instead of me actually writing the copy for you, I kind of just take you through my unique process of getting the foundation in place, getting all that kind of stuff.
Basically figuring out how to build these funnels and a lot of time they’re– well I’m tripping over my words there– they don’t have to be very complex. You know you can have very simple funnels and they get you pretty close to just good as a result if it’s really advanced and there’s none of the pain in the ass stuff that you have to do with setting it up.
But yeah, I can show you how to build a very trust-based, authority-driven funnels that essentially it’s the whole automated funnel, it attracts the right people into your funnel, it pre-sells them, it pre-qualifies them especially in a ‘non-salesy’ way, I hate the hard-selling kind of stuff.
It’s like I said before, when people come to me, when you get on the phone, instead of saying ‘should I do business with you?’ they’re already indoctrinated into you and they’re pre-sold on you , and they’re pre-qualified so you’re actually talking to the right people so when you get on the phone, they’re asking you like ‘how to work with you?’ so if you have 2 or 3 options it’s like ‘okay which one is the best for me?’ rather than ‘should I work with you?’
Stephen: Or even worse, ‘why should I work with you?’
Stephen: Or a person was comparing you with others.
Jeremy: Yup. So that one is www.getdreamclients.com and again that’s for service providers, coaches, consultants, professional speakers, experts, that kind of thing. And yeah, if you’re not sure how to work with me, then shoot me an email and say ‘hey, you know, here’s my situation, what do you recommend or whatever’ and a lot of times it comes back to your budget and whether or not you like creating copy and that kind of stuff. So yeah we can chat about that.
Stephen: That’s awesome. And just before the podcast name as well? Because I know I love the podcast and I’m sure everyone else listening will to.
Stephen: You’ve got to keep updating it.
Jeremy: I know it’s terrible. But its sales funnel mastery. So just do a search for that in iTunes or you know whatever it is.
Stephen: We’ll track it all up in the show notes and stuff as well so people can reach that nice and easy. Yup, guys get on to the podcast. I know I was like a massive radio head and then found podcasts. I think the first one I found was John Lee Dumas’ entrepreneur on fire.
That hooked me for at least a few months and then I started going outside of the general entrepreneurs’ phase and found yours and I think Lead Pages I found, Russell Brunson’s and there’re some epic ones out there. So definitely get on to that.
Jeremy: Yup, definitely.
Stephen: It’s been awesome having you on. I’m sure we’ll bump into you soon and yeah I’ll look into it and have a great day.
Jeremy: Yeah, sounds good. You too, thanks for having me.
Stephen: Thanks, bye.
Jeremy: Alright, bye.
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