#35 Facebook Marketing Machine Rick Mulready

Biography:

Rick Mulready specializes in Facebook advertising and through years of case studies and experimentation while working with big corporate Internet advertising companies such as AOL, Yahoo! Funny Or Die, and Vibrant Media he was able to build himself up as a guru in Facebook Advertising.

With Facebook Advertising, says Rick, small businesses can advertise easily and grow steadily. Social Media, Facebook in particular, had become amazing opportunities for small businesses to market themselves, according to Rick. Which was why in 2010, while still in the corporate world, he decided to learn more about the opportunities to be had and have even written a book called,  “beginner’s guide to Facebook ads” as he worked on honing his craft.

At the end of 2012, he left the corporate world and has since then marketed his own business, focusing  full-time on Facebook and social media marketing.

In addition to that, nowadays he is also into podcast and training programs, working on them to help entrepreneurs and online marketers showing them how to get results from today’s social media — specifically Facebook advertising.

Topics of Conversation:

[00:14] Introductions
[01:23] Facebook Dashboard Change
[04:18] Click-Through Rate and Metrics
[06:45] Retargeting with Facebook
[10:33] Intersecting Audience
[12:25] Cold and Warm Traffic
[13:34] Solopreneurs and Hiring
[15:47] Starting out on Facebook Ads
[20:58] Facebook Paid Traffic and Podcasts
[25:25] Workshops and Webinars
[26:23] Webinar Registration
[27:59] Success in Facebook Retargeting
[30:52] In Conclusion

Reach Out To Rick Mulready:

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rmulready
• Website: http://rickmulready.com/contact/

Tweetables:

Transcription:

[00:14] Stephen: Hey guys, Stephen Esketzis here from Marketing on the Move and today I’ve got Rick Mulready with me, did I pronounce it the right way?

Rick: You did. Now most people get it wrong, but you got it right, Stephen.

Stephen: That’s awesome. Well thank you so much for coming on the show today, it’s going to be awesome.

Rick: Absolutely.

Stephen: So Rick’s a bit of a Facebook ads expert. Do you want to give our audience a bit of an introduction on what you do on a day-to-day basis?

Rick: Yes so a lot of my time I have a couple of training courses and because Facebook loves to change things so very frequently, I’m keeping the content updated, working with people who are in the courses, when appropriate.

I create a lot of content around Facebook ads and paid traffic in general for the podcast, for example, a lot of content and coaching sessions, so kind of all over the board. As far as the types of things I’m working on, all in an effort to try to be helping people improve their businesses through Facebook ad, smart Facebook ad traffic and paid traffic in general.

[01:23] Stephen: Yeah, that’s awesome. First question, we’ll start off pretty basic and then we’ll get into some of the ninja tactics because I know there are some people out there who always love to know the advanced stuff.

Rick: Sure.

Stephen: First question, Facebook recently made a bit of a change in the ads dashboard and the ads manager. What do you think of that?

Rick: They’re always changing things. I think they’ve come a long way. The types of reporting and the data that we have available to us is pretty strong there especially when you look at other platforms like Pinterest or LinkedIn.

Youtube is pretty advanced as far as the Adwords reporting and so forth, but Facebook has come a long way and the report that we have available to us in the data in there is pretty good so I actually don’t mind it and I really don’t get upset too much when they go and change something even though they changed up pretty frequently in there.

It’s just sort of the nature of a beast, I mean they’re constantly evolving and trying to continuously make improvements and make things better. You know sometimes they don’t do that, they make it worse but at least they’re trying and I know they’re trying to make things better and make improvements. So it’s all good.

Stephen: Yeah. Well I guess, obviously, it must be within their interests and our interests as well. I mean they want us to spend as much as possible for us and they want us to have the best targeting, best creative and setting up ads as easily as possible.

Rick: Yeah exactly. They know that the easier that they can make it and the more robust table for it that they can have in it for us, the more money that we’re going to spend.

Stephen: Exactly.

Rick: So you’re right. It’s in their best interest to keep doing it.

Stephen: And now what they’ve done is they’ve also integrated the reporting altogether because they used to have a separate section. Now that they integrated altogether, how powerful is reporting now with your ads that you use? Do you use that to really dial in on what’s going on after some period of time?

Rick: Yeah for sure. You really have to use that reporting. If you’re going to do Facebook ads right, you really have to use the data in the reporting to make educated decisions based on what you’ve had running especially now with this sudden surge of video ads on Facebook.

They have some pretty good reporting in there. Things like, you can see what percentage of the video people are watching, you can look at time spent on the videos, so those are all really important data points to know that will help you figure out whether you’re ad-creative is working pretty well or not. But for sure you got to be using the reporting that they have in there and it is pretty robust.

The cool thing about it too is you can customize it with whatever is important to you. And so yeah, I’m pretty happy with the reporting that they have available to you.

[04:18] Stephen: And on the top of your reporting, do you say, I can imagine pretty often that a lot of people use the wrong metrics in those reports, because I think there’s a lot of fake metrics that I’ve caught that really don’t paint a solid picture of the ROI you’re getting on an ad. Do you want to expand on that a little bit?

Rick: Yeah, for sure. That’s kind of one of those things that really bothers me to a point of, I just wish that people would stop getting hung up on things like Click-Through Rates or this is what my Optimized CPM cause was, that sort of thing.

You know if you’re objective is to drive traffic to a web page or to your website, then yeah, your Click-Through Rate is going to matter and it’s going to be super important. But most people are trying to get conversions, so they’re trying to get people to opt into something, or register for a webinar or download something or buy something or whatever it might be.

So they’re looking for the actual conversion. Well in that case, you need to be looking at what your cost per conversion is and not going immediately to Click-Through Rate.

Stephen: Yup.

Rick: I get it because, you know, the Click-Through Rate, for so many years in all my advertising, was the number 1 metric, what my cost per click was and what my click-through rate was. And so that’s really how things were measured. But now, we’re trying to get conversions here, those are what we need to be looking at.

So you need to be looking at the right kind of metrics. I think you said it really well there, Stephen that if your goal is conversions, looking at what is my cost per conversion and then how many conversions did I actually get for the amount of money that I spent, then based on those numbers, you can then start looking at some of those other numbers like Click-Through Rate or your frequency and stuff. I like to call those, the Troubleshooting numbers. So if things are not working very well, I can use the Click-Through Rate or what the conversion rate is.

Now landing pages, I can use those numbers to try to figure out what the story is. But yeah, you got to be looking at the right numbers based on whatever your objective is.

Stephen: I love that you use that Troubleshooting as well. I mean that’s another part of Facebook as well, getting into the split testing and finding out at what stage of the funnel is it breaking and going in there and tweaking it and fixing it. So I think like metrics are not necessarily bad, but you just have to use them at the right time.

Rick: Yeah exactly.

[06:45] Stephen: So I guess reporting side, what about laser targeting to your customers, to your ideal customer. Where do you get started with a fresh campaign? Do you start in the audience insights and then you build it out from there or do you try to look for an existing mailing list and maybe match it up in the insights?

I don’t know, what’s your strategy getting started with that customer avatar?

Rick: It really all depends, number 1 on what the offer is. But generally I’m going to start first and foremost with the warmest traffic and that’s going to be people who are coming to my website so I can retarget those people.

Facebook’s website custom audiences, which is Facebook’s version of retargeting. So I can retarget people who visit my website and show an ad to them on Facebook.

You know as long as people are Facebook users, I can set up audiences where I’m tracking people, Facebook users who are coming to my website or any portion of my website or any page of my website. So that’s probably the first and foremost and then you can look to create a look-alike audience.

For example, out of those people, because Facebook knows so much about its users, it can look at the audience it has built and it can retarget audience and say ‘oh, okay, the people who are visiting your website have these attributes, we can go find you a whole brand new audience on Facebook, all people with the same attributes as those people who are visiting your website’ which is really powerful, or you can upload your email list and you can target it.

One question I always get is ‘if they’re already on my email list, why do I want to target them again?’ You know with Facebook ads, you have to remember that not everybody on your email list is seeing if you email them, your open rate might be anywhere between 20% and 60% high but that would just basically mean that not everybody on your email list is going to be seeing your content.

So if you’re able to target them with Facebook ads, that’s another touch point for you to be in front of them. So it’s really powerful a opportunity there. And again this is warm traffic because these are people on your email list so they’re going to be familiar with who you are.

You can also in turn again, create a look-alike audience out of the people on your email list. If you have a sub-segment of your email list to buyers, you can upload that list as well and then create a look-like audience out of your buyers which is really powerful as well. So I like to start there.

I like to start with the warmest traffic first and then work backwards to, you know, if you have Facebook fans that are targeted, you can work form there again to the colder traffic which is your standard type of interest targeting which is your stereotypical kind of when people think of Facebook targeting, they think of who I want to target such and such Facebook page that’s similar to mine or a competitor of mine and not just basic interest targeting.

And you mentioned audience insight, which I love the fact that you know about that because a lot of people don’t. Well audience insight is a really powerful tool in looking for other Facebook pages that are relevant to whatever niche that you’re in. If you’re not really sure who or what pages that you should be targeting, definitely be using audience insights which is on the left hand column when you go into ads manager, you’ll see a link to audience insights in the left hand side there and play around with it because it’s going to give you some… you kind of have to sift through a little bit to find the gems, but it’s going to give you some ideas of some other Facebook pages to be targeting with your ads.

[10:33] Stephen: Yeah, audience insights also. I mean the amount of times I got in there and I thought alright, well let’s get on targeting, you see 5 or 6 other pages who have a pretty decent-sized audience and fall exactly within your target market and all you just do is add them to interests and keep going and going. So I think it’s pretty good. Now I’m not sure if you’re familiar. Are you familiar with intersecting audiences as well?

Because I know some businesses, rather than saying ‘I want this interest and this interest’, you want to have people that are interested in both interests as well. Have you had experiences like that before?

Rick: Well Facebook does not allow it to do it. They’re actually rolling it out and they’re testing it right now so not everybody has access to it. I don’t have access to that so I know they’re playing around with it. Currently it’s an ‘or’ so meaning, if I want to target people who have an interest in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times, it’s an ‘or’, I can’t do both.

Like I said, they are testing that right now, they’re rolling it out very slowly but that doesn’t mean that you can’t say, for example, if you create a look-alike audience from people who are on your email list, and you have that look-alike audience and you want to target them, well you can also layer in an interest on top of that. So you can say I want to target people who are on this look-alike audience who also have an interest in the Wall Street Journal, you can do that.

Stephen: That in essence, is sort of the same thing, I guess, in a roundabout way, if you’ve got a big enough audience?

Rick: Sort of, yeah. If you create a look-alike audience out of that and then layer in an interest on top of that, yes it becomes an ‘and’ rather than the ‘or’.

[12:25] Stephen: And I think there’s a lot of clever little things that you can do like that but I guess the main thing is, the people out there who are just starting off, you probably want to get started, like you said, with the warm traffic and then build out from there slowly because there’s so much traffic out there, there’s so many ways to get specific, you want to start as warm as possible, get those people through the door, and then build out.

Rick: Yeah because your message is going to be different, or it should be, really. I mean the message for the warmer traffic should be different form the message going to the colder traffic because for the cold traffic, they don’t know anything about you.

They likely haven’t heard about you or are not familiar with what you’ve got to offer. So the messaging really should differ based on what the traffic source is and the temperature of how familiar they are or how they might be with your business.

Stephen: Yeah, exactly right. That also comes into point where you’ve got your creative, your landing pages, your copy, all of that I guess comes into delivering the right offer to the right audience at the right time.

Rick: Yup, exactly.

[13:34] Stephen: And that’s what makes a good Facebook ad. So I think we’re on the right path so far. We’re doing well.

But I guess with Facebook ads, looking on the other end of it, there’re people that are just starting out and they go through that starting off with warm traffic, what about the guys who are doing quite well at the moment?

At what stage should you scale it out to maybe an ad agency or should you stop doing your own ads, how do you say that? Have you done that in your own business? Gotten someone else to handle the ads while you focus on your course or do you still do it yourself?

Rick: That’s a good question. I still do it myself and I’ve thought about that. But personally I like having that control over it from my own business but I’m certainly not opposed if I find somebody that I truly trust and I think that’s going to do a good job.

I know a lot of people that they want to do Facebook ads, they want to learn Facebook ads but they’re solopreneurs and maybe they have 1 or 2 people working for them, contractors or something like that, and they just don’t have time to run their own Facebook ads well in that case, definitely try to find somebody that knows what they’re doing and that you trust is going to do a good job.

But from an agency perspective, if your business is for the advanced person, if your business is doing decent money and you know exactly what you should be paying for your Leads, there’s definitely agencies out there, smaller agencies ‘that will do the work for you’. You’re going to have a more sizeable monthly minimum spend like $10,000 spends in order to work with that agency.

But if you know exactly what your cost per Lead should be to make money off the procedures that you’re offering, and it’s not something you want to be managing in-house, absolutely go find an agency that you’ve heard does a good job and talks to them about it.

Stephen: Yeah, and I guess that’s the same with any traffic. I mean once you know your cost per acquisition and you can work out your earnings real quick and all the code metrics that go along with it and you just sort of present them on a silver platter to the agency and say, get me Leads cheaper than this.

Rick: Yeah exactly.

[15:47] Stephen: So yeah. I think that looking forward to being an acquisition where you can just roll them out and that’s where you’re really rolling, steaming ahead. All right, so I’ve got a little scenario for you and I’m going to put a bit on the spot here, so I hope you don’t feel threatened.

We just sort of want to see, because I know there’re a few people that go out and they start, mine would be a training course, it would be some sort of product they want to launch at the market and they might be new to the market and it’s a new nation, new industry, they haven’t developed a list, haven’t developed any relationships in that industry yet and they’re starting to drive traffics.

So it’s like 1 sentence and you can let me know what you’re thinking or what your thoughts are. For example, what we’ll do is we’re starting to run traffic to something in the health industry so fresh food, maybe veganism, raw food, all of that, and we’ve got an eBook for sale for $37 with a bit of a funnel behind it.

So it might have an up-sale behind it and a membership side as well. So you haven’t got any authority in the market, so how do you go about starting to run Facebook ads as a cold product, cold traffic, starting from scratch without a list? What would your sort of strategy be going into something like this?

Rick: Sure. Do you have a website?

Stephen: You would have a website. Let’s say you’ve got a website put together which has maybe a buy and sell on the home page and you start going up.

Rick: Okay. If you’re brand new to a niche and nobody knows who you are, you’re going to want to have some sort of resource that people can learn more about you and read the articles that hopefully you have on the website.

And so a good strategy might be for that is to start running some ads to promote content that you have on your site. So obviously it’s targeted to your niche.

If you start to do that and you have your retargeting pixels set up, you can start driving traffic, relevant traffic, to the site to consume the content on your site. Now what you’re doing there also is kind of a 2-step process, when you get somebody on to your site, number 1, you are building that retargeting audience.

So like I’ve said, you’ve set that pixel up so that you’re able to track those people. The second thing you want to be doing is you want to be collecting email addresses for when people get there. I understand you still have the $37 eBook but it’s really difficult to get, especially with cold traffic, to get somebody to buy right off of a Facebook ad. You got to build that relationship with them first.

Stephen: Yup.

Rick: So if you’re retargeting that traffic, you can show them a relevant message in the future based on that specific piece of content that they were reading because that’s how granule you can get with that retargeting traffic and then eventually you can lead them into that $37 eBook that way.

Now on the other hand, the other thing that you want to be doing is collecting those email addresses when they get to your site. And so what that allows you to do is that allows you to develop a relationship with them, you can get them into an email auto-respond or series where you’re giving them value, you’re starting to build that relationship with them and then you can present that $37 eBook to them and then you can have your upsells and down-sells from there.

But one way I would do it is to drive traffic to your website, having them consume your content and that’s one way to get them to become familiar and start to build a relationship with them. The other thing that you can do is have a free giveaway.

Whatever that might be that’s relevant to that $37 eBook. So whatever you’re talking about in there, maybe you have a free giveaway that’s relevant to it so you’re driving the Facebook ad traffic to the free giveaway, give them whatever that is and then again, you get them into your email auto-respond or series, build that relationship with them and then present that $37 eBook to them after a few emails once you start to build that relationship with them.

Stephen: Yeah, I love that. And like the first situation you were talking about delivering value. It also increases your cost per acquisition as well, initially. I mean to drive traffic to a blog post is a lot cheaper on Facebook than it is to drive traffic to collect maybe in Opt In so it’ll be a squeeze page right off the bat.

Rick: Yeah, exactly. And that really gets us back to like what we were talking about before, you know, looking at the right metrics, so if we’re going to do that, then your objective might be website or click to website and so in that case, yes, your click-through rate is going to become important but you’re absolutely right, it’s going to be oftentimes cheaper up front there to be driving that traffic to the content.

Stephen: Yup, so that’s awesome, I love that. So I think with something like that, anyone can really go ahead with. I mean it doesn’t cost a lot, it’s not a heavy investment, between $1,000 – $2,000 investment to get into Facebook ads, you can start at your own pace, so I think between a mix of content marketing and paid marketing, you can really start building an audience and start building and gaining that authority in really any industry.

So I think that’s a really good piece of advice I guess from you just how to get going forward in the new niche, so I love that.

Rick: Cool.

[20:58] Stephen: So the next one is an interesting question which I’ve had a few times on the podcasts and asked on my website, and that is, ‘how does Facebook paid traffic come into podcasts?’ So say you’ve got a podcast, you want to get it out there more, what is a good strategy if someone can use podcasting and Facebook together to reach more of their audience?

Rick: Yeah for sure. And I’m actually, that’s funny you asked, because I’m about to put together an article about this. So this is the case where you can only drive traffic. Unless you have a specific podcast page on your site that you have set up and you want people to take some sort of action there outside of listening, and I say outside of listening because you can’t track that conversion.

If you’re on iTunes, if it’s Stitcher, however you are having people play an episode, you can’t track that. So all you can really do from it is look at or have like a baseline listenership. What I mean by that is look at your listeners from or downloads from last week and then if you start your Facebook ads this week, look at what your downloads are this week and then if you’re not doing Facebook ads next week, you can just kind of look at what the patterns are so you can say ‘oh, okay, I was not running Facebook ads here, this was my adwords, and then number of downloads.

Here, I was running Facebook ads and now this is what happened with my downloads, it increased by whatever percentage.’ So you can kind of look at it that way. I think the more important thing comes in when if you want to run Facebook ads for your podcast, look at the targeting. So you can get really specific with your targeting and then also the placement.

For example, I would have, if my podcast was on iTunes, and I want to drive people to iTunes, I would be targeting the mobile placement, for example, and I would be targeting iOS users. And so you can get that granular targeting by mobile device and vice versa if you want to target people or send people to Stitcher, which is, you know, likely going to be on Android, you can target people using the Android device for the mobile placement.

And then in that ad, you’re going to be using the Stitcher URL. So that’s how we do this. I’d be very specific on your targeting, and then I’ll be very specific and kind of separate the 2 mobile to five placements depending on where you’re sending traffic.

Stephen: Yeah. Isn’t it crazy like imagine if you target mobile, you target the location and the country as well and mobile device, and then you can even go to interest target someone like entrepreneurs for example. And there’re other entrepreneurs out there and I know this for a fact that their interests are literally their name.

People would have popular podcasts, which means you could put your own podcasts, add in the same news feeders, likely someone else is listening to that individual’s podcast, if that makes sense. So they can be scrolling through the Facebook newsfeed, and you can pretty much just whack your ad right in there to the perfect target audience and I think it’s crazy how it’s so super-targeted these days.

Rick: Yeah, for sure. One thing I want to add to that is if you’re going to do that, this goes back to whenever I’m talking to somebody who’s doing Facebook ads I always ask them ‘why?’ why are they doing Facebook ads, what’s their objective. So if you’re going to be promoting your podcast, hopefully you have an objective behind that.

Meaning you’re trying to get a sponsor, or you have a sponsor for the show, or you are on the podcast, and you’re trying to drive people to one of your courses or a service or a free webinar. Whatever it might be, make sure you have some way to at least down the road, get people or make a return on your investment that you’re spending up front in driving listenership to the podcast.

Stephen: Yeah. And I think that definitely is something, which a lot of people slip up on. They just sort of do it to build brand and I think that’s the biggest, sort of, cop out that I’ve heard online which they would just say ‘yeah, just want to get my name out there, just want to be seen more’ but at the end of the day, it doesn’t help your bottom line, and I don’t think it’s helping many people.

So you need to always have a goal in mind whether it’s like an email or if it’s a purchase, I think having that sequence and that funnel is super important.

Rick: Yeah.

[25:25] Stephen: And on the training side of things, you’ve got your Facebook training as well, you’ve got a course as well, how do you market that using Facebook ads?

What are some of the most successful ways that you’ve marketed your course to fresh traffic and I guess how you use your Facebook ads course to market your Facebook ads?

Rick: Yeah I get super meta with this. So I primarily do it through webinar.

Stephen: Yup.

Rick: And I want to start testing a couple different things here coming up but primarily through webinars. So I have a streaming workshop for my beginners course and then when I launch, I go through, I relaunch it and then I close my flagship training.

But when I’m going through a launch, I’m doing a live webinar some running Facebook ads into a webinar registration to set up for a live webinar with me, and then I offer the additional training off of the webinars. So primarily it’s Facebook ads into webinars.

[26:23] Stephen: Yup, now I think webinars are great ways to sell online. I’m sure that you’ve seen before and I’ve seen them before and a lot of our audience has as well. Facebook ads and webinars just mesh so well together.

Do you have a strategy behind your webinar? Because obviously you talked about delivering content first and then maybe retargeting with the webinar or do you go straight for webinar registration because they can also get quite expensive as well? How do you sort of look at that?

Rick: I actually really don’t see it as being expensive because I kind of know at this point what my cost per Lead should be around in order for me to be making money off of it. But with that said, I do retargeting with that and I’m retargeting people who visit my website and I’m also retargeting people who visit my webinar registration page but don’t opt in. I mean that could be for any number of reasons.

They could get there and yeah, they could legitimately not be interested in registering for the webinar or could be a case of ‘the phone rang’ and they just got sidetracked or ‘the kids came running up’ or ‘they had to whatever’, ‘they’re in a coffee shop and they lost’, whatever it could be there are a number of reasons so it’s a good idea to get your message back in front of them if they were visiting your registration page in the first place and didn’t opt in. So I definitely use retargeting and if you’re getting any traffic to your website or if you’re driving to a specific page, you need to be retargeting at this point.

Stephen: Yeah.

Rick: That’s how powerful it is on Facebook.

[27:59] Stephen: And I mean retargeting in Facebook is very easy to set up. I think people undervalue how powerful it is to use something like retargeting. And I definitely couldn’t agree with you more. It definitely needs to be something within your strategy somewhere.

So I got one last question for you and that is, how in depth do you need to get into Facebook to really start seeing results? Do you need to be a whiz in powering it up or do you need to be someone who can just put an ad together and sort of work out a strategy? How in depth do you really need to understand Facebook?

Rick: Yeah it’s definitely the latter. I mean, you do not need to be the super ninja in any of the tools there. You really just need to kind of have the desire to get in there and play around with things and not be afraid to kind of jump into it.

The cool thing is, that you do not need to spend a lot of money in order to be successful with Facebook ads. You legitimately could spend $5 – $10 a day and start to see results and learn things from what you are putting together.

I think that the clear or the number 1 thing that you want to do is have a clear understanding of what your objective is. Again, going back to that ‘why’, ‘why am I doing Facebook ads in the first place?’, ‘Who is my target audience?’, and then ‘what’s my offer going to be?’ and just have a strategy in place there.

That’s where a lot of people get stepped up or mixed up there when they don’t have a really clear strategy, meaning, ‘okay I’m going to run a Facebook ad into webinars, Facebook into webinar registration. I’m going to give them my webinar, I’m going to offer my product services at the end of the webinar or at some point during the webinar’.

For those people who don’t buy I’m going to put them into an email follow-up sequence still offering them my product service for a period of time.’ You know that’s a very simplified an example of what my strategy might look like but a lot of people just don’t have that form of strategy outline and so just be really clear about what you’re trying to achieve and how you might be able to get there and just kind of jump into it.

Again, you don’t have to spend a lot of money, but spend a few dollars and start to learn your way around the system there. But you definitely don’t need to be some sort of super ninja in order to see success with this stuff.

Stephen: Yeah. And I think you had 2 really great points there as well I mean one of them is that I think people get really scared pretty quickly as well. They’ll go in and run $5 or $10 of ads and they’ll say ‘Geez, it’s because I haven’t had one website clicked all day and I’ve got it on $5 of ads.

Everything is going down the drain, let’s stop it now before it gets worse and I’m just throwing money at the wall’ and I think people get a little nervous as well whether it’s their first time or they’re just sort of learning Facebook as well. And I think the other one is, like you mentioned, people need to spend some sort of money. It doesn’t have to be a lot by any means but at least put some money out there to start seeing how everything works.

Rick: Yeah, exactly.

[30:52] Stephen: And that’s another really important one. Yeah, it’s been a pleasure having you on Rick and you’ve given us some real good value in this podcast episode so thank you so much for coming on.

Rick: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks Stephen.

Stephen: Oh, how can people reach you further? What’s the best way to reach you or learn about your course as well?

Rick: Thanks for asking. It’s my website and hop on my email list over there which is at rickmulready.com, the email list, will, not only give you some content but you can get to know me and my style and we can build our relationship that way but yeah, rickmulready.com and hop on the email list there.

Stephen: Perfect. Beautiful. No worries, I’ll speak to you soon rick. Sounds good.

Rick: Sounds good. Thanks Stephen.

Stephen: Thanks.